{"id":838,"date":"2019-03-04T17:09:10","date_gmt":"2019-03-04T22:09:10","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/sites.duke.edu\/policy360\/?p=838"},"modified":"2021-06-14T19:33:56","modified_gmt":"2021-06-14T19:33:56","slug":"ep-87-madeleine-albright","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/policy360.org\/2019\/03\/04\/ep-87-madeleine-albright\/","title":{"rendered":"Ep. 87 Madeleine Albright"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Madeleine Albright served as the 64th U.S. Secretary of State under President Bill Clinton.<\/p>\n<p>In this episode of the Policy 360 podcast, she joins Sanford School of Public Policy Dean Judith Kelley to discuss the rise of fascism around the world, concerns about President Trump and the fragility of democracy<\/p>\n<p>&#8220;I&#8217;ve been saying two words that actually could appear contradictory,&#8221; Albright says. &#8220;One is that democracy is fragile, and the other that democracy is resilient. I think both are true, and you don&#8217;t just kind of have [democracy] by virtue of saying I want democracy. It does take work.&#8221;<\/p>\n<div class=\"page\" title=\"Page 9\">\n<div class=\"layoutArea\">\n<div class=\"column\">\n<p>Listen:<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p><iframe src=\"https:\/\/w.soundcloud.com\/player\/?url=https%3A\/\/api.soundcloud.com\/tracks\/584988114&amp;color=%23ff5500&amp;auto_play=false&amp;hide_related=false&amp;show_comments=true&amp;show_user=true&amp;show_reposts=false&amp;show_teaser=true\" width=\"100%\" height=\"166\" frameborder=\"no\" scrolling=\"no\"><\/iframe><\/p>\n<div style=\"font-size: 10px; color: #cccccc; line-break: anywhere; word-break: normal; overflow: hidden; white-space: nowrap; text-overflow: ellipsis; font-family: Interstate,Lucida Grande,Lucida Sans Unicode,Lucida Sans,Garuda,Verdana,Tahoma,sans-serif; font-weight: 100;\"><a style=\"color: #cccccc; text-decoration: none;\" title=\"Sanford School @ Duke\" href=\"https:\/\/soundcloud.com\/sanford-school-duke\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Sanford School @ Duke<\/a> \u00b7 <a style=\"color: #cccccc; text-decoration: none;\" title=\"Madeleine Albright\" href=\"https:\/\/soundcloud.com\/sanford-school-duke\/87-madeleine-albright\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Madeleine Albright<\/a><\/div>\n<p><em>Conversation highlights have been edited for readability and clarity.<\/em><\/p>\n<h1>Conversation Highlights<\/h1>\n<p><strong>On fascism<\/strong><\/p>\n<div class=\"page\" title=\"Page 1\">\n<div class=\"layoutArea\">\n<div class=\"column\">\n<p><img decoding=\"async\" class=\" wp-image-843 alignright\" src=\"https:\/\/sites.duke.edu\/policy360\/files\/2019\/03\/albright-square-300x300.jpeg\" alt=\"Madeleine Albright, microphone in foreground\" width=\"260\" height=\"260\" srcset=\"https:\/\/policy360.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/29\/2019\/03\/albright-square-300x300.jpeg 300w, https:\/\/policy360.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/29\/2019\/03\/albright-square-150x150.jpeg 150w, https:\/\/policy360.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/29\/2019\/03\/albright-square.jpeg 725w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 260px) 100vw, 260px\" \/>Fascism is actually hard to define, because people throw the term around. Anybody you disagree with is a fascist. It&#8217;s not an ideology, it is a process. &#8230; And it is when a leader identifies himself with one group at the expense of another, so that the minority is really not only ignored, but often scapegoated about things.<\/p>\n<div class=\"page\" title=\"Page 1\">\n<div class=\"layoutArea\">\n<div class=\"column\">\n<p>It is&#8211; instead of trying to deal with the problems of society by finding some common answers, a fascist divides the society. So that is one of the definitions. The other is when the leader has absolutely no respect for laws and for institutional structures. When in fact, the press is viewed as the enemy of the people. It&#8217;s some behavioral aspects that are how a dictatorial leader actually takes power. It&#8217;s a process. Fascism is a process.<\/p>\n<p><strong>On the need to interact with people we disagree with.<\/strong><\/p>\n<div class=\"page\" title=\"Page 5\">\n<div class=\"layoutArea\">\n<div class=\"column\">\n<p>I don&#8217;t like the word tolerance, because that&#8217;s kind of &#8220;tolerate,&#8221; [or] &#8220;put up with.&#8221; But [I think we need to] respect what they are thinking about, and try to find out why. This morning I was very tempted in the airport. These two women came up to me and one had their picture taken with me, and they had Trump buttons on. I thought, &#8220;Okay, we should have a discussion.&#8221; Then I thought, &#8220;It&#8217;s too early in the morning.&#8221; But I do think that what we need to do is find out what has motivated the people, and not just kind of put up with them.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p><strong>Does democracy have a life cycle?<\/strong><\/p>\n<div class=\"page\" title=\"Page 9\">\n<div class=\"layoutArea\">\n<div class=\"column\">\n<p>I don&#8217;t know if there&#8217;s any set cycle, but there clearly are moments where democracy is stronger and democracy is weaker. It&#8217;s interesting because I&#8217;ve been saying two words that actually could appear contradictory. One is that democracy is fragile, and the other that democracy is resilient. I think both are true, and you don&#8217;t just kind of have [democracy] by virtue of saying, &#8220;I want democracy.&#8221; It does take work.<\/p>\n<p>I do think [people must] feel that they&#8217;re participating in the democracy. I happen to think that what&#8217;s going on now [politically in the U.S.] is the social contract is broken. That people &#8230; gave up individual rights, in order to be protected by a government. What&#8217;s happened is both sides are not fulfilling their responsibilities. I do think there&#8217;s a cycle, I don&#8217;t know whether its cycles &#8212; or up and downs &#8212; but it does require work.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<ul>\n<li>Subscribe to the Policy 360 podcast: <a title=\"https:\/\/policy360.org\/\" href=\"https:\/\/exit.sc?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpolicy360.org%2F\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow noopener noreferrer\">www.policy360.org\/<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Read the <a href=\"https:\/\/policy360.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/29\/2019\/03\/87-Madeleine-Albright-1.pdf\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">transcript<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Image: Melissa Carrico<\/li>\n<li>Music: Vittoro by <a href=\"http:\/\/freemusicarchive.org\/music\/Blue_Dot_Sessions\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Blue Dot Sessions<\/a> <a title=\"http:\/\/freemusicarchive.org\/music\/Blue_Dot_Sessions\/\" href=\"https:\/\/exit.sc?url=http%3A%2F%2Ffreemusicarchive.org%2Fmusic%2FBlue_Dot_Sessions%2F\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow noopener noreferrer\">\/<\/a> <a href=\"https:\/\/creativecommons.org\/licenses\/by-nc\/2.0\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Creative Commons License<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<figure id=\"attachment_840\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-840\" style=\"width: 492px\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\"><img decoding=\"async\" class=\" wp-image-840\" src=\"https:\/\/sites.duke.edu\/policy360\/files\/2019\/03\/Albright-with-Kelley-300x225.jpeg\" alt=\"\" width=\"492\" height=\"369\" srcset=\"https:\/\/policy360.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/29\/2019\/03\/Albright-with-Kelley-300x225.jpeg 300w, https:\/\/policy360.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/29\/2019\/03\/Albright-with-Kelley-768x576.jpeg 768w, https:\/\/policy360.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/29\/2019\/03\/Albright-with-Kelley.jpeg 1000w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 492px) 100vw, 492px\" \/><figcaption id=\"caption-attachment-840\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">Host Judith Kelley (left) with Madeleine Albright. | Image: Melissa Carrico<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<h2>Bonus Video<\/h2>\n<p>Watch Madeleine Albright&#8217;s live talk on the Duke University campus:<\/p>\n<p><iframe title=\"David M. Rubenstein Lecture | Madeleine Albright\" width=\"500\" height=\"281\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/G9dmPGiC2vQ?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Madeleine Albright served as the 64th U.S. Secretary of State under President Bill Clinton. In this episode of the Policy 360 podcast, she joins Sanford&#8230;<\/p>\n<div class=\"more-link-wrapper\"><a class=\"more-link\" href=\"https:\/\/policy360.org\/2019\/03\/04\/ep-87-madeleine-albright\/\">Continue reading<span class=\"screen-reader-text\">Ep. 87 Madeleine Albright<\/span><\/a><\/div>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":860,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"pgc_meta":"","_monsterinsights_skip_tracking":false,"_monsterinsights_sitenote_active":false,"_monsterinsights_sitenote_note":"","_monsterinsights_sitenote_category":0,"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[22,54,58,42],"class_list":["post-838","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-uncategorized","tag-grand-strategy","tag-international-development-policy","tag-national-security-foreign-policy","tag-politics","entry"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v24.4 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Ep. 87 Madeleine Albright - Policy360<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/policy360.org\/2019\/03\/04\/ep-87-madeleine-albright\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Ep. 87 Madeleine Albright - Policy360\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Madeleine Albright served as the 64th U.S. Secretary of State under President Bill Clinton. In this episode of the Policy 360 podcast, she joins Sanford&#8230;\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/policy360.org\/2019\/03\/04\/ep-87-madeleine-albright\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Policy360\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2019-03-04T22:09:10+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2021-06-14T19:33:56+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"https:\/\/policy360.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/29\/2019\/03\/albright-cover-1.png\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:width\" content=\"1000\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:height\" content=\"1000\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:type\" content=\"image\/png\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Stephanie Martinek\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Stephanie Martinek\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"3 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/policy360.org\/2019\/03\/04\/ep-87-madeleine-albright\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/policy360.org\/2019\/03\/04\/ep-87-madeleine-albright\/\",\"name\":\"Ep. 87 Madeleine Albright - Policy360\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/policy360.org\/#website\"},\"primaryImageOfPage\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/policy360.org\/2019\/03\/04\/ep-87-madeleine-albright\/#primaryimage\"},\"image\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/policy360.org\/2019\/03\/04\/ep-87-madeleine-albright\/#primaryimage\"},\"thumbnailUrl\":\"https:\/\/policy360.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/29\/2019\/03\/albright-cover-1.png\",\"datePublished\":\"2019-03-04T22:09:10+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2021-06-14T19:33:56+00:00\",\"author\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/policy360.org\/#\/schema\/person\/0a27318ff196f5e5f2e82a4ebea04e45\"},\"breadcrumb\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/policy360.org\/2019\/03\/04\/ep-87-madeleine-albright\/#breadcrumb\"},\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"ReadAction\",\"target\":[\"https:\/\/policy360.org\/2019\/03\/04\/ep-87-madeleine-albright\/\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"ImageObject\",\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/policy360.org\/2019\/03\/04\/ep-87-madeleine-albright\/#primaryimage\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/policy360.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/29\/2019\/03\/albright-cover-1.png\",\"contentUrl\":\"https:\/\/policy360.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/29\/2019\/03\/albright-cover-1.png\",\"width\":1000,\"height\":1000},{\"@type\":\"BreadcrumbList\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/policy360.org\/2019\/03\/04\/ep-87-madeleine-albright\/#breadcrumb\",\"itemListElement\":[{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":1,\"name\":\"Home\",\"item\":\"https:\/\/policy360.org\/\"},{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":2,\"name\":\"Ep. 87 Madeleine Albright\"}]},{\"@type\":\"WebSite\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/policy360.org\/#website\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/policy360.org\/\",\"name\":\"Policy360\",\"description\":\"\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"SearchAction\",\"target\":{\"@type\":\"EntryPoint\",\"urlTemplate\":\"https:\/\/policy360.org\/?s={search_term_string}\"},\"query-input\":{\"@type\":\"PropertyValueSpecification\",\"valueRequired\":true,\"valueName\":\"search_term_string\"}}],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\"},{\"@type\":\"Person\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/policy360.org\/#\/schema\/person\/0a27318ff196f5e5f2e82a4ebea04e45\",\"name\":\"Stephanie Martinek\",\"image\":{\"@type\":\"ImageObject\",\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/policy360.org\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/fd32b8b967cb1d5c75d96fa74981ba40?s=96&d=mm&r=g\",\"contentUrl\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/fd32b8b967cb1d5c75d96fa74981ba40?s=96&d=mm&r=g\",\"caption\":\"Stephanie Martinek\"},\"sameAs\":[\"http:\/\/centers-dewitt.sanford.duke.edu\"],\"url\":\"https:\/\/policy360.org\/author\/stephtduke-edu\/\"}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"Ep. 87 Madeleine Albright - Policy360","robots":{"index":"index","follow":"follow","max-snippet":"max-snippet:-1","max-image-preview":"max-image-preview:large","max-video-preview":"max-video-preview:-1"},"canonical":"https:\/\/policy360.org\/2019\/03\/04\/ep-87-madeleine-albright\/","og_locale":"en_US","og_type":"article","og_title":"Ep. 87 Madeleine Albright - Policy360","og_description":"Madeleine Albright served as the 64th U.S. Secretary of State under President Bill Clinton. 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